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Monday, February 28, 2005

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Leo Kottke?

Ack! Thanks, Scott - it's corrected.

Re: Autolink

"I'm bothered by the idea that an external entity - be it Google or Microsoft - can insert their ads into what I read"

The point that Dave W keeps failing to mention though is that this is opt-in. Sure someone could make it compulsory - which is when you guys should react, but Google are not doing that. Everyone is acting as if the end user and/or content provider have no say in this at all. You do, you can

a. Not install the toolbar
b. Add the script from http://www.threadwatch.org/node/1562 to your page to disable it.

The response is all out of proportion to the threat.

"The response is all out of proportion to the threat."

Definitely. It's a tool that lets end-users change page display. Y'know, like the web has pretty much always allowed.

This isn't the end of the world.

One point I've seen made is that the people freaking out are somehow not so bothered by popup blockers. Why is that okay but allowing users to create smart links is terrible?

I'm also fascinated by the opt-out solutions people are working on. Have they really thought about the user experience there? I mean, if the toolbar works fine everywhere except *your* site, who is the user going to blame for the sudden failure? Not Google.

Even if fighting this was a good idea, which I don't think it is, doing so by making your own site *less functional* seems like a questionable strategy.

AutoLink is opt-in, and does exactly the kind of thing you could do with a lengthy, clever bookmarklet. We're not banning bookmarklets, though.

I'd be more outraged if I were writing for those tech sites that have ad scripts selling ads for the mention of certain words in the stories.

I guess I was not aware that their toolbar is that popular. I do not use IE other than to occasionally check a site, personally I do not know of anyone that has added the Google toolbar. While I have used Google for years to search I have never had the urge to dl their toolbar.

I'm somewhat concerned about the precedent, though, Nick, if user agents aren't allowed to do whatever they want to the content that's downloaded. For example, FeedDemon had a popup blocker before IE implemented one, which is clearly changing the intent of a site publisher.

They definitely should make it a platform for others to add custom link types to a site. But even if they don't, I don't want site publishers to start thinking they can dictate how or where I use their content, because that's never going to lead to me being able to do new and interesting things with it. When we apply a stylesheet to a feed, what are we doing if *not* adding additional presentation and content to bare XML file? Doesn't that change the meaning, too?

You raise some good points, Anil. I hadn't considered that point of view, but now that I have, I may reconsider my initial reaction. In this situation, it appears that the "slippery slope" goes in both directions :)

So why does it matter that Google did the AutoLink toolbar vs Nick Brabury Inc.? Small co. Big co? Shouldn't matter.

I don't see a problem with AutoLink, so long as Google always provides the ability to change the site these links point to. As I understand it you can currently change the site for maps but not books which isn't good enough.

I think innovation should be encouraged and believe these features are genuinely useful (unlike Vibrant Media's IntelliTxt which is a similar concept), but they cease to be useful when, for instance, they force me to a book shop I don't have an account at, simply because that site paid Google the most money.

I don't agree with the argument that it should be opt-in for the content provider - the idea is we are trying to move away from sending the user the content formatted exactly as you dictate, and towards sending just the content for them to decide how best to consume. Seperating content from display is one of the key concepts of XML, XHTML, RSS et al.

I'm also fascinated by the opt-out solutions people are working on. Have they really thought about the user experience there? I mean, if the toolbar works fine everywhere except *your* site, who is the user going to blame for the sudden failure? Not Google.


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